Commenting here because this was a pretty interesting thread that stopped 14 years ago. Its definitely worth a read and further comments from others on their last meeting as an DO, CO, elder, MS, publisher, etc.
Lee Elder
JoinedPosts by Lee Elder
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My last meeting as an elder
by Lee Elder inthe thread on judicial committes reminded me of my last meeting.
as a jw elder.
a major rift had developed on the body of elders.
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Coming to terms with the Watchtower experience
by Lee Elder init is a challenge coming to terms with your experience as a jehovah's witness.
if you were born and raised as a jw, and your parents were true believers, the impact on your life is profound, lasting, and largely negative.
in some cases quite abusive emotionally, spiritually, financially, educationally and yes, even sexually.. i recently watched "trumbo", and was quite moved by dalton trumbo's speech to the screen writers guild in 1970. here is an excerpt that i think is quite relevant to this topic:.
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Lee Elder
Interesting comments. I think a few of you are misunderstanding what I was saying. When someone does something wrong or evil, they are damaging their soul or person. They may not realize it at the time, but its nonetheless true. Ray was guilty of this, I was guilty of this, and probably many of you were as well.
Are there some in the Watchtower who are aware that they are damaging others with their actions, speech, policy, etc? Yes, I am certain there are. Do some of these individuals know the truth about the truth? I would say yes. Are they motivated by a lust for power? Almost certainly.
My sense is that Ray Franz was a true believer for most of his time as a Jehovah's Witness. I know I certainly was. There is little question in my mind that there are others, perhaps a significant majority of the leadership who are true believers. That doesn't change the effect of what they are doing, only changes the context. Its the kind of factor that comes into play at the sentencing level in criminal cases. They've victimized others and they have also been victims.
As for anyone who aware of the history of the organization, and the level of damage that its doing, and chooses to stay and support it, and go so far as to lust for power and prestige (at any level of the organization), that is a special kind of evil. They've been damaged and victimized by the process of growing up, and chosen to continue the cycle despite having knowledge. I think this is a very small group of narcissists and sociopaths. How many of the governing boy would fit this description I can't say.
My post was simply about how I try to come to terms with my experience. I've been out for nearly twenty years now. I didn't have to go to jail like Dalton Trumbo did. However, there are quite a few similarities in the experiences, and I found some peace from reflecting on his words. I hope you did as well.
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Coming to terms with the Watchtower experience
by Lee Elder init is a challenge coming to terms with your experience as a jehovah's witness.
if you were born and raised as a jw, and your parents were true believers, the impact on your life is profound, lasting, and largely negative.
in some cases quite abusive emotionally, spiritually, financially, educationally and yes, even sexually.. i recently watched "trumbo", and was quite moved by dalton trumbo's speech to the screen writers guild in 1970. here is an excerpt that i think is quite relevant to this topic:.
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Lee Elder
It is a challenge coming to terms with your experience as a Jehovah's Witness. If you were born and raised as a JW, and your parents were true believers, the impact on your life is profound, lasting, and largely negative. In some cases quite abusive emotionally, spiritually, financially, educationally and yes, even sexually.
I recently watched "Trumbo", and was quite moved by Dalton Trumbo's speech to the Screen Writers guild in 1970. Here is an excerpt that I think is quite relevant to this topic:
"When you .... look back with curiosity on that dark time, as I think occasionally you should, it will do no good to search for villains or heroes or saints or devils because there were none; there were only victims. Some suffered less than others, some grew and some diminished, but in the final tally we were all victims because almost without exception each of us felt compelled to say things he did not want to say, to do things that he did not want to do, to deliver and receive wounds he truly did not want to exchange. That is why none of us - right, left, or centre - emerged from that long nightmare without sin."
It reminded me of Ray Franz comments on the "organization" and how there are simply victims of victims. As much as I am tempted to feel anger and resentment for the leaders of the Watchtower, they too are victims. They may not realize that, but it is nonetheless the truth. The monster, if you want to call it that, is the Watchtower Society. At least that is the way I see it, and come to terms with my experience. How about you?
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Lee Elder
Keep asking questions like that and you may have a future sitting on judicial committees. :-) -
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Lee Elder
My wife wad disassociated when she was ten years old - no joke. That's back when unbaptized ones (DA) were to be treated the same as disfellowshipped ones. Now try and reconcile that with Watchtower's argument to the European Commission on Human Rights that minors can't become JW's. If you are baptized, you can be DF'd period. I was baptized at nine, as was my brother. Is it child abuse? Depends on your definition, and the rules the Watchtower attaches to it, but in my view, the answer is yes. -
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Had a operation today and was asked about blood transfusions.
by atomant inoperation was successful only minor but some interesting information was revealed to me from the surgeon.l requested that they treat me as if l was a jehovahs witness with regards to blood transfusions.the doctor said well that varies from jw to jw and l asked what do you mean?his response was that in his dealings with jw's was that approx half of witnesses will accept a blood transfusion in life threatening circumstances and sign a form saying so.l was blown away when he told me this.l was curious if others in here have heard similar storys.lt seems to me that many witnesses have weakened their stance on this controversial subject.
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Lee Elder
Many of the physicians I have spoke with have had the experience of JW's, particularly those in their late teens or twenties, agreeing to accept some or all of the remaining banned blood products. -
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Left Bethel to get married and have children, found the TTATT instead
by jehobi inlong story, short story.
grew up on a farm, went to bethel, married a sister and left bethel.
found ttatt after my cousin died refusing a blood transfusion.
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Lee Elder
I would like to learn more about your cousin is possible. We are trying to track the deaths that can be attributed to the blood policy as best we can.
http://ajwrb.org/watchtower-blood-map
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Bloodless Medicine....not all its cracked up to be.
by Lee Elder inthis is a pretty good example of the limitations of "bloodless medicine", and why the informed choice should always be "blood conservation" medicine, which retains the safety net of blood transfusion when medically required.
sadly, the watchtower fails to inform jws regarding these important limitations, and their potentially disastrous consequences.. http://www.dailyreportonline.com/id=1202750028414/jury-awards-100k-to-family-of-jehovahs-witness-who-died-after-refusing-blood-transfusion?mcode=0&curindex=0&curpage=3&slreturn=20160118223352.
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Lee Elder
This is a pretty good example of the limitations of "bloodless medicine", and why the informed choice should always be "blood conservation" medicine, which retains the safety net of blood transfusion when medically required. Sadly, the Watchtower fails to inform JWs regarding these important limitations, and their potentially disastrous consequences.
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Interlinear bible removed from the JW app?
by nmthinker inmy iphone doesn't have the interlinear bible anymore, the one with the greek and translated english together.
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did they remove it?
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Lee Elder
I am surprised if its still available. Very useful in figuring out TTATT. -
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Do Witness children die from not taking blood?
by juandefiero inyes - awake!
1994 may 22 p.2 youths who put god first (3-15).
"in former times thousands of youths died for putting god first.
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Lee Elder
Up until AJWRB came on the scene in 1997/1998, the organization saw the martyrdom of children as just another proof of Jehovah's blessing and the great faith of its members. They have been clubbed over the head enough times in the past 18 years in the press and medical journals that they no longer see it that way. More clubbing to come.